Gift of the Gabberer: Bianca Guimaraes, Kevin Mulroy and Leila Chee
Bianca Guimaraes (Executive Creative Director), Kevin Mulroy (Executive Creative Director) and Leila Chee (Business Manager) at Mischief @ No Fixed Address talk about being part of the birth of a new agency in the middle of a pandemic.
Interviewed by Damian Asling.
Let’s get stuck into it. Could you each please tell me a little bit about yourself, what you do and how you arrived at where we are right now?
BIANCA: I’m Bianca Guimaraes, I am an Executive Creative Director at Mischief, I should say Co-Executive Creative Director, Kevin is my partner.
Before joining Mischief, we worked at BBDO New York for six and a half years. I’m from Brazil, moved to the States about ten and a half years ago and I’m super excited to be starting a new agency, even in the middle of a pandemic. It feels like the perfect moment to do it.
KEVIN: I’m Kevin Mulroy, I am Co-Executive Creative Director at Mischief with Bianca. I’ve been in advertising for about 17 years. Bianca and I first met when we were both at JWT NY for a minute there, and yes, we worked together at BBDO on a bunch of different stuff for the last six years and now we’re starting Mischief, we’re super excited about it.
LEILA: I’m Leila Chee, I am the Business Manager here at Mischief. I’m from California, and somehow ended up here in New England (Boston). We’re all kind of spread out. But it’s been really fun to be on ground zero of something, as Bianca said, in the middle of a fricken pandemic.
I have growing experience in advertising and mainly did photography for a couple of years before that. I really don’t know how I got here, but it’s been fun.
From your perspectives and looking back at advertising previously - what was the world like for you before COVID hit? What’s your memory of doing creative work before this all happened?
LEILA: I mean, just from personal experience, this time last year I would have been downing coffee and running around an office, talking to people, etc. In a way it’s been a little nice, I think just for my personal preference, to not have to commute and do the getting up to get to work thing.
I’ve honestly enjoyed the slower pace and being able to be stationary for a second to just take care of business from my living room. I mean, I’m sure if this goes on for another six months though, I’ll be saying the complete opposite.
KEVIN: You know, I agree, the parts that I do like--because creatively I typically think on the page, I’m a writer and it probably makes me hard to work with, luckily Bianca is used to it now--but usually I like to quietly think on the page and come up with a few things and then talk with my partner.
So, by not having chaos around me in an office is sometimes really beneficial and I get much more done. Also, I just moved to New Jersey last fall, so I’m pretty happy not having to commute right now.
BIANCA: Yes, working remotely was something we were used to doing already. Mostly because of the open floor plan of most offices, and the lack of meeting rooms. So on days that we needed to get a lot of work done, working from home was usually the best option.
It has also been nice to be around my kid more. I have a one-and-a-half year old, and it’s great to not miss bedtime. And I agree with Kevin and Leila that the commute takes a big chunk of time that we can now spend getting stuff done and hanging out with our kids.
KEVIN: I think there will be some things that will be tougher, certainly pitching will be harder, you know, you want to be in the room with people and you want to spread ideas on a big table or put them on the floor and see what you have, it will be interesting to see how that works.
And my wife is producer and I know she’s like, I hate this, I need to go crack the whip and tell people to do things and it’s way easier to do it in person.
It’s interesting those creative dynamics that are often invisible a lot of the time, a lot of the things we take for granted… like talking to each other in the hallway or going up to someone’s desk to ask a question, those things have been removed.
It would be interesting to get your perspective on how that creative dynamic, and certainly between, suits/strategy/creatives/producers and how the mechanisms that we’re all used to, have shifted and changed and the way, Mischief is approaching everything from a new angle and vision.
BIANCA: A lot of that has been the same but done via Zoom calls, instead of in person, which can be good and bad.
When we were in the office, it was sometime easier to just stop by someone’s desk to chat quickly and figure stuff out. Now it seems like there’s a Zoom meeting for any conversation that needs to happen. At the same time, it seems like only the people that really need to be part of those meetings are now in them, which is good.
Overall, we’re in the business of solving problems and adapting to changes and I think we’ve all been doing that pretty well. I think production is probably the part of the process that has changed the most and has faced the biggest hurdles.
Having to follow things like casting, sound mix, colour sessions and even shoots remotely, isn’t easy or very efficient. That has definitely been the part of the process that has changed the most, and we’re still figuring out the best way to do those things.
KEVIN: I just think that in some cases it makes it a little bit more efficient to do it this way just because you don’t have these big meetings where sometimes you burn the first ten, 15 minutes just chit-chatting and there are probably more people than need to be in the room.
And I think, it’s true, you can’t go to somebody’s desk and just say, hey, I need you to take a look at this, but you can call someone and you know they’re probably available, for better or for worse. So that is sometimes actually good and helpful, it’s like instead of calling a meeting with, you know, 14 people, you can just text the planner or whoever, and they’re available to answer your question or figure something out.
LEILA: I think that point right before that we talked about, exhaustion from Zoom, that also probably comes from just how efficient meetings are, to Kevin’s point. You hop on a Zoom call and almost everyone is, like, within a minute or two in the meeting whereas usually it’s ten, 15 minutes, people trickle in, whatever.
It starts on time, you go through an entire agenda, meeting is over in 30 minutes and just go-go-go, so it’s very efficient. But I think at the end of the day you’re like, oh my God, I’m so tired.
BIANCA: Yesterday Kevin and I were in a meeting with two other creatives and we didn’t have the Zoom subscription, so we got an alert saying that we were reaching the 45 minutes limit for that meeting, which made everyone get it done within that time. And that was great. That’s how every meeting should work. You set a time limit and things need to get done in that amount of time.
KEVIN: Yes, when we do go back to the office, we’re going to hire bouncers to kick you out of here.
BIANCA: Exactly.
Do you think it’s changed the way you could come up with ideas, as a team or as a collective, when you’re going through that creative process of trying to make new connections that haven’t been made before? Has that shifted in a way or is it mostly the same?
KEVIN: I feel like it’s mostly the same, to me. I mean, especially because, like I said, I like to just get into a document and work on something. I think that, yes, the brainstorming or the early creative process is kind of similar to the way Bianca and I were working already.
It’s like, you go off, come up with some ideas, sit down and chat about them and then go off and write some things, come up with some new stuff. So, that hasn’t changed that much. And I think Bianca touched on this earlier-- being creative in this business is about elasticity and being comfortable in the chaos and knowing how to problem solve.
We’re always dealing with things that pop up, surprises, changes at the last second, for example, the client kills every one of the vignettes in your campaign the night before the pre-prod and you’ve got to scramble and figure stuff out.
We’re used to dealing with having stuff thrown at us and just figuring it out, so in that regard it has not changed that much, you just sit down chat it out and figure it out.
BIANCA: Yes, I would agree with that. I’m kind of like Kevin, I don’t come up with ideas in the shower or when I’m walking around. For me it’s like, this is the time to come up with ideas, so I open a Google Doc and stare at the blank screen until I think of something.
On that note, do you think - in terms of inspiration - where normally you would be walking down the street or in the subway or on a train or on your way to work or from work, the communal situations that we find ourselves in society, finding inspiration and looking around to not only the local area but globally as well, how have you guys managed getting inspired and staying inspired and continuing to soak up that material that helps generate ideas?
KEVIN: To me the best ideas come from a truth that you find, something that’s true about the brand or the way people use the brand, and I honestly think that I come up with more of those in silence than I do being surrounded by, sort of, the chaos of the city, it’s actually sitting and thinking about things. Now, having said that, you obviously have to take a break, recharge, watch things, walk around, go places, talk to people.
But the getting to the heart of a problem or finding out what the problem is, for me, comes from just quietly thinking about it, thinking through scenarios and trying to find something relatable from my own experience that you can put into the work to get to a place that feels true.
BIANCA: I agree, obviously, walking around, seeing things, seeing what’s happening out in the world, all of that stuff is inspiration, the stuff we do for fun, travelling and all of that. So, we’re experiencing less of that… but at the same time we’re spending more time online so we’re getting inspiration in other ways. We’re watching more shows, movies, concerts, and reading more in general.
I also think that spending time looking at the work coming out from our industry is important, and I feel like I’ve been having more time to look at that. All of that helps and counterbalances the lack of inspiration from the outside world.
LEILA: Yes, it’s been really interesting having to find inspiration – anything that sparks your brain just from the four walls that you’ve been in for the last six months. My screen time has just gone up astronomically since this whole thing has started but because of that, to Bianca’s point, we’re online and consuming so much.
And I’ve, honestly, just been really inspired by what other people are doing right now, it’s crazy how productive people have been that I’ve seen, like they’re starting side hustles, online shops, creating little movies at home. I think that’s been really inspiring to see.
So, while we don’t have the outside world, you know, helping form our thoughts or making us think differently, I think seeing what other people are doing and making the most of this crap situation has been really inspiring too.
When working with clients and suppliers or other people outside of your immediate surroundings and little collective, how do you find that process of building rapport when efficiency is off the scale and there’s a lack of the mingling and the little connections as a new venture?
LEILA: At my last gig, a lot of things would be, you have a whole internal agency team getting into a conference room, huddling around a phone and talking to people on the other side, not really being able to put faces to the names because you’ve never seen them.
But now it’s kind of cool (and maybe not so cool at the same time…), where every call is expected to be a video call. In a nice way, you do get to see and meet more people “face to face” that you would never really see to begin with.
BIANCA: I agree, we’ve been having a lot more facetime with our clients and getting to know each other better as we witness each other’s kids’ meltdowns, partners appearing in the background of our Zoom calls, fire alarms going off, etc. All of that is allowing us to develop deeper and more personal connections.
KEVIN: I just wish I could do it without having to look at my face so often, just very tired of that.
LEILA: Yes, agree.
Beyond the work, what sorts of creative things have you guys been trying to tap into to not just be working for 16, 17 hours a day?
BIANCA: With a baby at home, most of my time is dedicated to him and then there’s a little bit of leisure time, that I spend watching or reading something and catching up with my family and friends from Brazil.
KEVIN: Yes, kids definitely fill the rest of the time and I’ve got a nine, a four and an almost two year old and the four year old in particular requires not only a lot of attention but a lot of creativity to figure out how to keep him entertained, so that helps.
LEILA: I don’t have kids, but I am living with a dog, who is the sweetest thing – I literally just spend hours staring at her when I’m not working – her life is so simple.
Before, I was part of the layoffs that happened due to the pandemic so I had a good two months’ break, which was great, but it also made my brain stop working… I was getting used to waking up and not having to do anything except look for jobs. So, I bought an iPad to try and help bring my creative muscles back to life. It was a good two to three weeks where I was just drawing and practicing on it… but now I just use it to watch Netflix in bed because I’m so tired after the work day. It’s funny how these things work out.
So, in the midst of the global pandemic how has it been assembling the team and getting the work going? Going from getting things off the ground to, “this is really happening”?
LEILA: Obviously it’s different because usually when you’re in an office, you’re getting a big brief or kicking off a huge production and you can get into a room and feel the excitement.
Now it’s like, okay let’s send a really exciting email and just get everyone hyped on this thing that we’re doing. It’s a lot of, I think, virtual morale boosting and Zoom calls, just trying to make things feel as different or as unique or as exciting as possible.
Luckily, I think we are working with a ton of momentum to start just given that we launched an agency via Zoom in the middle of the Coronavirus pandemic, so that in itself is pretty cool, and everyone’s like, “I can’t believe you fucking did that.” But now it’s keeping that going and riding the wave.
BIANCA: The industry and our clients need new business models that are more in line with our current reality and the world moving forward. They need the flexibility of what we have at Mischief, which is this core group of people with the ability to grow and shrink depending on the demand. Without this big overhead or huge structure that needs to be fed all the time.
So, opening an agency in the worst recession in modern history, sounds crazy but at the same time it sounds perfectly logical.
Also, having great chemistry with Greg from working together for years, when Kevin and I had the chance to be part of this journey with him and build the agency from the ground up, we knew it was an opportunity that we could not pass on.
KEVIN: Yes, this whole thing has been a proof of concept that you don’t really need a lot of real estate, you don’t need the offices, you don’t need a lot of stuff just to get the work done. And it just doesn’t take that many people to do this work. You need, sort of, a core group of dedicated people with a similar goal, and you can get a lot done.
And it’s always been like that, but you forget, and meetings get padded with people who don’t need to be there, and a lot of people wait around to say something in a meeting to justify a pay check. When you strip all that out the job itself, it just doesn’t have to be that hard if you just find the people that get the work done and can be flexible. And that’s how you launch an agency over Zoom, I guess.
Mischief talks about magic over margins, how do you define the magic? Magic can be somewhat of a broad term. So, I’d be interested to get under the hood of what magic means at Mischief and how it’s being interpreted every day.
KEVIN: I think most people in a creative field have found is that the magic doesn’t typically come out of thin air, it comes from the chemistry you have with other people and the way ideas can move fluidly between those people.
And that’s why we were so excited about working with Greg again, since we already had that, sort of, creative shorthand and comfort level with each other. And when people are all motivated and think similarly, have similar taste, you know, a lot can get done. So, that’s where I think the magic comes from, that’s how I would define it.
LEILA: I love what you said, Kevin, about the magic coming from the chemistry with people. I think right now it’s so apparent that you’re working against every current, just given the situation of the world and where we’re all at.
It’s also the magic that comes from fighting every uphill battle to then make this awesome end product that no one really could imagine in the beginning, and now we’re making these really cool things. And I think that’s the magic now - I think the definition of magic will change as things evolve but for now, that’s the really cool novelty of everything.
There’s a unique relationship between people that, are just all in the same crazy pirate ship together trying to sail to land. It’s an interesting dynamic around ideas and also getting to solutions for clients.
You touched on how that magic comes from the relationships between people and it sounds like the way you talk as a collective, that there’s a lot of trust, which becomes evident in the way you guys really talk about the work, doing the work and the ideas.
So, in your mind, moving forward how will you keep those kinds of bonds of trust nurtured and how do you, as things scale (as they naturally do when you have momentum and people do great work together) how will you continue to champion that kind of trust and relationship between each other?
KEVIN: I found that, especially at bigger agencies, there are typically go-to teams, whether or not they want to admit it. We’re just hoping to build an agency out of those teams and find the people who we share a creative vision with.
Now, having said that, we don’t want people that bring the same exact perspective as us, at all, I think we need to bring in all different types of people who think differently, who come from diverse backgrounds, but that share a creative vision and give a shit about what they’re doing and work hard.
And that’s where trust comes from, I mean, you can spot it easily, very quickly, in people’s work, if they care about what they’re doing. So, you try to find those little bands of people within agencies and try to recruit them.
LEILA: And, what you said about trust, you can tell just from this Zoom call, that there is a lot of trust between us. What’s really interesting is, of the core six that we have in the Mischief family right now, I physically have only met one of them and the rest have been virtual introductions.
It’s crazy how much you can tell about a person’s intentions or their background or their personality just from a video call. And the fact that we have been able to form this bond and these relationships within this very small group right now, having never met each other, is very special.
Also, having to work with people that you don’t really know makes you trust them and it’s like a trust fall kind of thing – you’re falling and you’re hoping they catch you. So far, I’ve been caught, and I think that’s a good testament to how we’ll work in the future. It’s mainly about creating these friendships more than anything, and being able to trust from there.
It’s an interesting space to think about and certainly when we look to the future, beyond being locked down and only interacting virtually... what are the sort of things you would like to take from this COVID-time lockdown-time, back, when we go to the next new normal?
KEVIN: I think we touched on this a little bit already, I mean, I think being comfortable with unpredictability and change and being elastic and being able to manage that is probably a good thing. And I hope, or at least from my perspective, I think this time has given me an opportunity to try to get better at my craft, I think that’s an important thing.
We do have a little bit more time, you cut out the commute, you cut of other nonsense of being in an office, and a lot of people have been baking bread and doing puzzles, but you can take that time to get better at what you do and focus on your craft.
I took the James Patterson Master Class, not because I’ve ever read one of his books, but I just wanted to see what they’re all about. That guy was the CCO of JWT; he was in advertising for like 25 years, which I didn’t realise, before he became a billionaire writing books.
But he said something about taking what you do for a living seriously, and he said even if you’re working on something you think is kind of dumb, you’re doing a toothpaste ad or whatever, he was like, if you do a good job, you feel good at the end of the week, and if you don’t, you feel bad.
He was basically like, “how do you want to feel, good or bad?” I thought that was a nice distillation of just taking your work seriously, trying to get better all the time and practising your craft.
LEILA: That’s awesome. What would I bring from this time into the new normal… masks. Half kidding.
I really want to bring with me this level of communication, not even work-wise, but personally, just checking in with the people that you talk to every day, asking “how are you?” and being better at reaching out to friends and family. This has been such a time of connection, and I think that’s something that we sometimes lose sight of when we’re in the day grind of our jobs, commutes, etc.
I think there’s a nice balance there between honing the craft and pouring ourselves into our practice and maintaining those connections on the other side - the human ties that bind - to really pull the work to where it needs to be, but then also pull those connections into something that creates a nexus that’s quite meaningful.
In the business of creativity, it’s important that (at least I think) that work is meaningful and not just noise, even if it is a toothpaste commercial or a Tik-Tok video, it’s got to move people, even a tiny little bit.
Thinking in those perspectives, what kind of advice or inspiration do you have for up-and-coming creatives during this time?
KEVIN: To me, it goes back to, I just want to see writers write and art directors art-direct and just really lean into being good at their craft, because it’s weirdly sort of... You see fewer and fewer writers who can write, like young writers who can really write, for example.
It’s funny, I still see student books or portfolios and I look for headlines, because I still think that great headlines can be the big idea, can be the crux of the whole thing. So, yes, I think it’s important to always be trying to get better at what you’re trained to do, what your job title is, rather than having student digital or experiential or stunts on your site. Start with being good at your craft.
BIANCA: I second that, I think that’s very important. We see a lot of portfolios that have cool, crazy, wacky ideas but that aren’t doable in reality, or that have nothing to do with the brand positioning or tone of voice. To me, it means more when I see insightful clever ideas, good headlines, ideas that make me realize I hadn’t thought about a particular subject in that specific way, even if the execution or delivery method isn’t as shiny.
LEILA: I’m not a trained creative in the industry, but I think from working with a lot of creative people and working on these projects that go out into the world, one piece of advice that I would give to people is, to keep an ear to the ground, to read, and to pay attention.
Sometimes it’s really easy to get caught up and be in your bubble, and get used to the same people around you with the same thoughts, but you have to open up your mind, be progressive, and be open to questions and conversations.
I think that’s the best way to make yourself as human as possible. And I think in this industry you have to be as real as possible in order to strike a chord within people.
KEVIN: I was listening to a podcast with a neuroscientist and the host asked him at the end of it what can we do to make ourselves smarter, and he said the only thing I can tell you that actually works is reading and sleeping. Two things I don’t do enough of. I thought that was interesting.
That’s good advice to live by and I think that’s a really good note to wrap up the interview-side of things. I really wanted to thank the three of you for, not only enduring my barrage of emails, but also giving your time to sit down and let me get under the hood of your mischievous brains.
LEILA: Thank you for your time as well and for thinking of us!
Bianca Guimaraes Executive Creative Director with Mischief @ No Fixed Address
Bianca has been named as one of Business Insider’s ‘30 Most Creative People in Advertising Under 30’ in 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2016. Shots magazine selected her for their inaugural list of “Rising Stars;” Adweek included her among its “Creative 100;” The Drum named her to their “50 Under 30” list; She Says and The Voice of a Woman awarded her as The VOWWS Best Creative Director; the One Show and the 3% Conference named her as one of their Next Creative Leaders; and most recently, she has been featured on AdAge 40 Under 40’s list.
Her work has been nominated for an Emmy twice and has won more than 100 awards including Cannes Lions, D&AD, One Show, Clio, LIA, ADC, Webbys, Effies and the first ever “Storytelling for Good” Grand Clio for the Sandy Hook Promise film “Back to School Essentials.” Her work has also been featured in the New York Times, LA Times, Business Insider, Washington Post, ABC News, Contagious, Mashable, Gizmodo, Campaign, CBS, CNN, Fox, and BuzzFeed.
Bianca’s influence spans beyond the work she creates. She has become one of the most impactful female creatives in the industry. She uses that influence to make the industry better and more diverse through her work with “Gatas na Gringa,” a mentorship program for Brazilian female creatives looking to work abroad, and by speaking at a number of industry events, from a panel at The One Snow’s annual “How to Get a Job” event, to Google Beach at Cannes, to a She Runs It career conference workshop, to Ad Age’s creative month. She has also been a teacher at Miami Ad School and a mentor and portfolio reviewer at career conferences for FIT, Pratt, MAIP, the 3% Conference, and The One Club’s annual Creative Bootcamp.
She has been invited to judge Cannes, D&AD, Clio, One Show, LIA, AICP, The Webbys, Kinsale Shark, New York Festivals, The VOWWS, Lisbon International Advertising Festival, FWA, Applied Arts, Gerety Awards among others.
Ultimately, she hopes her achievements can encourage more young women to consider advertising as their profession and inspire women in the business to see a future in it.
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Kevin Mulroy Executive Creative Director with Mischief @ No Fixed Address
I got a late start in advertising after hating a bunch of jobs that hated me back in my 20s. I began my career at the now defunct Element79 in Chicago (a collapse for which I was only 1/200th responsible), did a short stint at JWT NY during the Ty Montague Era (where I met Bianca), spent few years helping build an NYC office for Mekanism, did a stint writing TV shows and screenplays that never got made, and did a little chunk of freelance before landing at BBDO NY. It was the first place I’d been where giant, brand-level work wasn’t just paying the bills, but winning awards and industry respect. A huge part of that was because of Greg Hahn. No matter what the project is, big or small, his taste is impeccable and unwavering.
If there’s one thing I’m most proud of in my career so far, it’s being able to pull award-winning, risk-taking work out of conservative clients who do not like taking risks. Sneaking a great idea with great execution through the gauntlet of hammers on a high profile project is enormously gratifying.
I’ve been in advertising long enough not to take awards too seriously when I do win them, and to declare they’re rigged when I don’t. But the awards I’m most proud of are for AT&T’s “Close to Home.” Of course, people remember the spot for the beautiful/devastating slow-motion crash. But that wasn’t new. We deliberately set out to create an emotional connection between the viewer and the film’s characters so you really saw yourself in that moment when the crash happened. Because of that connection, we were able to make a four minute and 36 second branded film go viral enough to crash Adweek and Creativity’s servers in the first week.
I’ve written a bunch of entertainment stuff outside of advertising, including collaborations with Eric Stonestreet (Modern Family), and Samantha Bee (The Daily Show, Full Frontal with Samantha Bee).
It’s an enormous amount of work that often dies with a shrug, but it’s still very satisfying. One day, when my three kids spend less time screaming in my face, I’ll get back to long-form writing. For now, I pay my dues to the WGA primarily for the screeners.
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Leila Chee
They molded Swiss Army knife people on Leila Chee. The anti-pigeon-hole account slayer has been finding a way to do more than just one role since her entrance into agency life at mcgarrybowen New York. She took her multiplier skills to MullenLowe, where she worked on the Burger King social and digital business as a client connector and a brand creative idea generator. Now Leila takes her skills to Mischief @ No Fixed Address where she wrangles a rainbow of roles to help fuel the agency model of the future with a start-up mentality. Her industry dream is to help facilitate pave the way for others coming from diverse, non-traditional backgrounds.
